Victoria Kleinsman is back! In this episode, we chat all about the journey to connecting with your authentic self, your intuition, and your sense of purpose. We also talk about how to start to look at the patterns in your life that are no longer serving you and how you can begin to break old habits and become the cycle breaker in your family to start to bring awareness to liberating yourself from intergenerational and familial patterns of distress and focus on healing your own mind-body-spirit so that you can show up as the most complete and whole version of yourself. Check out my past podcast interview with Victoria here.
Topics and themes from this episode:
Connect with Victoria:
Book Recommendations:
Bria Wannamaker, RP.
@betterboundariespodcast
www.briawannamaker.com
Support the show, buy COFFEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
As always, please remember that these podcast episodes are for educational purposes only and are not a substitute for medical healthcare or mental healthcare. Podcasts are available as an educational and entertainment resource and are not advice, recommendations, or suggestions. Please seek out the necessary professional services if you require assistance.
Victoria Kleinsman is back! In this episode, we chat all about the journey to connecting with your authentic self, your intuition, and your sense of purpose. We also talk about how to start to look at the patterns in your life that are no longer serving you and how you can begin to break old habits and become the cycle breaker in your family to start to bring awareness to liberating yourself from intergenerational and familial patterns of distress and focus on healing your own mind-body-spirit so that you can show up as the most complete and whole version of yourself. Check out my past podcast interview with Victoria here.
Topics and themes from this episode:
Connect with Victoria:
Book Recommendations:
Bria Wannamaker, RP.
@betterboundariespodcast
www.briawannamaker.com
Support the show, buy COFFEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
As always, please remember that these podcast episodes are for educational purposes only and are not a substitute for medical healthcare or mental healthcare. Podcasts are available as an educational and entertainment resource and are not advice, recommendations, or suggestions. Please seek out the necessary professional services if you require assistance.
I was in so much denial because my mom and Dad loved me the best way they knew how but it was conditional love. They don't know how to love unconditionally and the relationship I had with my mom. I was so in meshed with her and she with me. I thought it was the best relationship ever yet. We were completely codependent. Yeah.
welcome Victoria to the better boundaries podcast. Yeah, so excited that we get to chat again. Thank you so much for me on again Bree. really really happy to be here and honored you asked me to on again. Yeah, and maybe I don't know this just popped into my talk about your podcast a bit. Are you running that what all is going on for you? I guess since you spoke last. Yeah, so still got my podcast. I changed the name slightly. It's still the body of binge, but it used to be the the tagline after that was food freedom and body love podcast. It is that but I've changed to eat and disorder recovery podcast for two reasons one because the engine likes the words that are in the title and I do speak a lot about of course eating disorder recovery, which in a is food freedom and body love it's just said in a more a way people might actually be searching. So love my podcast love it. Mmm, that is so neat. Yeah, I think that's great to make it accessible to more And then okay, let's talk about that for little bit because We'll get into it. You what like eating to sort of wise I would say I've made like a full recovery, but I don't even know how like I couldn't regurgitate the steps to somebody because it felt like it was so holistic like so many different things were at play to Just
bring me back to me. That I couldn't even give like a formula to somebody else to to repeat it. So I don't What are your thoughts on that? What do you What see with people? Well, I love what you said that you just came back home and paraphrasing here. But you came back home to yourself. You came back to yourself because that's in my opinion what recovery and self-healing is all about. Of course self-healing is a never-ending journey in my opinion personal and Spiritual Development and in a stuff and childhood trauma There's Always Money layers and to peel back and understand but in eating disorder recovery, it is coming home to yourself because if you think of a healthy healed individual that has holistic approach to Wellness, they're physically healthy. They're mentally healthy emotionally healthy and healthy can mean different things to different people to me Health doesn't mean only eating clean foods and only eating this amount carbs with the all that that does not mean healthy to me. What means healthy to me. It's quite simple really it's intuition living. So just living through what feels right for me in a holistic way. Yeah. Oh, okay. So how do we get more intuitive like things are so noisy? Yes, you're so things are noisy. We have the phones glued out the end our hands most of the time and you know, you and I also use technology for our business to reach people to help people. So it's in important to create space and this is for everybody whether you're a owner or not to create space and the reason why I mean by space is in your planning in your agenda create white space where you have nothing planned at least half an a because if you think of let's say
you're in this and the music's playing and it's really loud and you're trying speak to a friend and you having to really shout and you can't hear and you can't be properly present. That's what life can tend be like like a constant disco in a everything coming at you. So the spirituality God the First you're intuition. It needs space and quiet you to be able speak to you and if your brains always going if you're being stimulated all the it may be speaking to you, but you will not hear it. So to just be quiet and to be still is when the best ideas come so Einstein and Tesla they've written about what they used take naps. In middle the day and there's a reason for that because napping, you spirit for a time. Let's say 15 to 20 minutes. You don't go into deep sleep you're in like the Delight sleep and I it's a REM sleep where you like having visions and dreaming and that's when you get intuitive hits so Also on that intuition is like a muscle. It's not something. it is like it was not something you train as in like you're in control of it and you get to decide like how it how it happens to you. It's already part you. It's already part who we are but the we practice being quiet listening and acting from our feeling it's strengthens our connection to it. So it's easier to then follow it throughout life. Yes, just I think yeah what you're saying like tapping into it more often. There's a practice behind it of strengthening it that's so fascinating. Uh, and I like what you're about the The Napping too because we don't take a lot of time for that and I'm trying to think of my day today and tomorrow there is no carved
out kind white space. I the only white space would be like Oh, I'm driving from here to here and like that's not
Yeah, it's your right. It's not conducive to our health and but I do like the idea of you I I'll do a guided meditations just here and there when can and just get into that lower brainwave state of calming the nervous system, but I never thought about it in that way to kind of recharge and reconnect with ourselves. I love that and before we keep going. maybe introduce yourself too like Telling people who you are. I completely skipped over that because I'm so excited to to dive into all the juicy things. But I think it's important that people know a about you definitely. So those of who don't magically know who I am. I have done it I guess on podcast before so perhaps you know, who I am, perhaps you don't but I'm Victoria I'm saying is Victoria. Kleinsman. I'm a food freedom and body love coach and having been through my own journey and still on a journey to self-discovery. I've I've healed from anorexia bulimia binge eating abuse and that is abusing childhood and abuse in a relationship and I now help women to come back home to self love and intuition eating. And that looks like people coming to me with anorexia with binge eating with bulimia with low self-confidence like hating their body with really low and challenging body image struggles and I help women. Like I say come back home to themselves, which is infinite self-love self trust including and being connected to your intuition because when we're connected to our intuition intellectually often, it doesn't it won't make sense what you feel like you want to do or I want to live here or I to do this and intellectually, it doesn't always make
sense on paper and that's when a lot people second guess themselves and think yeah, actually that doesn't make sense. I won't do that. But your intuition guiding you for a reason we can't be connected to our intuition. If we're in a disordered eating pattern and disorder trauma pattern because we're constantly blocking our true self through fear through past trauma. Yeah. Oh. talk about that part the blocking because so this it interesting. I heard the other day on a podcast and I've mentioned to you that like finding purpose is really important to me right now. So
The podcast was saying we kind each no intuitively at a soul level like what our purpose is, what would bring our lives more meaning and more aliveness and but we have all of these all of these gifts. We sort of know which direction to go but we the water really muddy by like dabbling in this and then trying this and going over here, which is it's great to experiment but sometimes and we know when but sometimes it's out of fear, and we are blocking ourselves Because the actual during the actual purpose the actual meaning feels too scary if we're to fall short, so yeah, how we block ourselves and how do we Not like how do put our that ego piece to the side? Well before I go into that why I would like to say is you don't find your purpose your purpose finds you oh. Because if you are trying to find something you're in this.
You're seeking you're doing you're trying to control in a You're like you're trying do something. Whereas I'm sure you've heard this phase before this beautiful phases of mine, but you are a human being not a human doing. Oh, love you, right just let that land when I heard it's true like Oh my gosh. Yes, that is true. But I'm constantly trying do something to somewhere. Yeah, because you have you have goals you, you know, you want to feel that passion that purpose every So the first thing will is that stop trying to find it and this is what you do instead. First of you decide who you want to become how do you want to feel if you were living this purpose that you would have seeking and connect to that feeling? And as much as possible, so you've mentioned the word fulfillment. Hmm, how can you feel fulfilled today and ask yourself that every day and then the doing part comes how can you then feel fulfilled today? And then in order for your purpose to find you? It's about following the breadcrumbs and I'll talk about what that means in a If you keep following the breadcrumbs find a loaf and then you find a bakery and I'm so blessed or found my bakery. This is what I was born to do. I find, you coaching and retaining information from books. I find it so easy and just one my gifts because it's just what I'm here to do now. I arrived here by I mean without telling you all of my life story that led me here, but just before I go into that every one of your listeners including me and including you We've arrived in this moment today through a series of events. If one event was different you would not be in here right now in space and time and there's a called The untethered Soul by Michael Singer. readable book and he states that the moment in front of you right now and then of and now And then now
because all we have is now the moment in of you has taken billions of years to reach you as gift from the second the Big Bang happened like whatever we don't know was behind that all the way up to now if something different happened you wouldn't be having this moment now now I don't want to sound like I'm talking riddles here. But what I mean this is in the moment, you will notice a pool or a feeling or a sign of some sorts and depending on how your intuition communicates with you because everyone's different I like to bring human design in this. I'm just starting to a more about that if you love that. What are you? Oh you go first. I'm a generator. So what numbers you're I'm five one. Five one and what's your feeling? Are you emotional and spleenic? What's the other ones all the plexus? With a few different ones. Okay. Wait.
That's a question actually. Okay. So my energy is sacral the feeling. Hey cruel, that's the feeling. Is that okay? So your energy type is generator your five. Did you say five one? Yeah, if I'm one five one and you the way you're intuition. Guide you is through is your sacral. So your sacral is I believe because I'm a human sound expert like in your stomach. Lower chakra areas of of feeling what feels right and what feels wrong does that ring true for you? Oh 100% Yeah, and it's it's so crazy because we ignore it for so long. So with that like lower chakra energy, they're supposed be like a gutter all response to things so you're intuition like It might not even come in words. It might out as like a mm-hmm or and that below is my mind. So sometimes I'll ask myself questions out loud and the answer like and it's like okay, we're not doing it. That's it's not happening. That's that was genuine. So it's so fascinating. Yeah, I recommend everyone dive into the rabbit hole of human design simply to understand how your intuition connects with you in this lifetime. So my so I'm a manifestor my ego loves that because it's undeniant population like, you seriously, it's generators are like 33% of the population boring you the human design experts say that the generators the chosen ones. The Manifest is the fire starters. So if it was like this is the best way I've described each energy type so the listeners if they're wondering like what the hell we're
talking about. This definition will help. So let's say you've got a mountain in front of you and the goal is to climb the mountain. You've got the manifesters who are already up the mountain before the Said what the end goal off we go because we're the fire starters the initiators. You've got the generators who are like, right? Okay. This is a plan. Let's go and you all come together and you grind and you do and you just keep going and going you've got then the projectors who are still at the bottom of the mountain being like hmm. Well, I there's a better way to climate if we do this and we do that and then they'll stop to think about it and create a So there they make great natural coaches, even though I am a coach but they make great natural coaches and then you've got the reflectors who are under 1% of the population. I too and they at the bottom the mountain for a whole moon cycle deciding if they even to climb it or not. Wow, oh my gosh. That's interesting. Okay, I didn't know much about reflectors do know anything else like what? I'm curious if that's like a frustrating place to be in this world that is like hustle and they're just kind of like it's not sure yet. It is if they stun themselves. A human design is like a big permission slip in a to help yourself to get to know you better and so the true reflectors that know I've known them through human designs. So they already are aware of that energy type and they just need to practice patience being with whatever they feel right now and taking their time because they need a whole moon cycle to do sighed. I am a spleenic Manifesto. So going into my the way my intuition Works explain it me means and all over body knowing it doesn't make sense. I can't describe it and I'm a manifest so I take action. So I feel it take action and people around me like Wait,
what are you doing? And I'm like, I don't I'm just gonna do it. Okay. So if you have a common coming, if not, then please move aside icon explain why I'm doing it. So spleenic isn't all over body knowing and so my intuition whether it's a job a client. Food a place to on holiday. It's just to it's just an inner knowing that's very subtle, but it only comes to me in the moment if I miss it, and then I think about it later. I don't know what I don't know what I want. I'm all up in my head. I'm confused. I'm annoyed. Whereas an emotional Manifesto makes decisions through they have to sleep on it for a day and then they'll wake up and know the decision and that's how their intuition speaks to them. So it's really cool to get to know what your intuitive style is and you can connect to it on a deeper level. I think through knowing oh my gosh. I don't even know how we arrived at that point. But what a neat tool to support. It individual. Yeah, and I was on a tangent. Are we still remember though the beginning of the story which is helpful to the listeners. I was saying like you asked me how we get blocked and then how we unblock and I agree randomly about human design. And so the way we get blocked is through our past conditioning. Trauma from childhood and Trauma doesn't have to be an acute trauma where it has a before and after trauma can be chronic trauma emotional trauma this might manifest as an in an adult as people pleasing not knowing how to set boundaries High Achievers perfectionists things that serves as in adult book things that really don't serve as when it only serves until it till it doesn't anymore. It also can look like needing a role model or a hero all the time for someone
for them to look up to because they don't trust themselves. It can look like purposely underachieving because they have so much shame around failure the patterns that we get into there's a reason why we've got into those patterns. And so those are the blocks obviously we can go into that more if you want in a moment how we release all of that. number one as always awareness What pattern are you running in your life? So for example in relationships, I used to always choose someone who was quote blow my league. So I would be with someone apart from that abusive relationship which we spoke about in our last episode. I would choose and partners who was say things to me like you're out of my league. I'm so lucky to have you I can't believe I've got you as my girlfriend because Underneath It All I was so scared of being hurt. I would never have even been able to access that until I've done the work. I was so afraid of being her I chose someone who would worship me put me on a pedestal because then I felt safe in the relationship. So there's patterns like that. So number one comes awareness and number two comes Having the courage and courage is actually one of my top values Having the courage to dive deep and to peel back all the layers of childhood stuff. There's going to be a lot of Shame there a lot of emotional pain there a lot of denial and then a lot of grief and we can go into that as well if you want as to why it's grief and then when you understand you can start to repair it yourself. And give your get your needs met now. Which you're it's small little you the needs that were needed to be met didn't get mad. So it's a constant case of repairing yourself. Which all encompasses self-love self-trust setting boundaries it kind of goes back in a big circle. We
were born loving our cells but we've been conditioned to not to be further away from ourselves. And then the process comes self-actualization coming back home to who we are and that's the whole point in life. I think oh getting back to that place. Hmm. So good. You said something there and it slipped my mind. I just got absorbed into what you were saying. but the grief piece and I'm I want to come back to touching on that and I think patterns too. That's what it was. if I'm patterns so fascinating and this is what I work with people a lot through in therapy is looking back and I've done this with myself so many times that's why I love doing this exercise with other people where you do will do a bunch of columns. And then you can give them whichever headings you want. So whether it's a year a date a milestone another column would be your how is your physical health? How is your mental health? What was your money status? Like what were you doing? Who were you in relationship with just all those different kind of headings and tracking back throughout the lifespan of What's going on for you? And It's neat to notice and to pick up on when have you experienced. similar similar things happening and I think too because people don't realize that they've been doing the same thing for so long because it shows up differently and or even the the lifespan of it, you know, I have some people who come and work with me in adulthood saying like, you know, this this depression is going on right now, but then when we unpack it through patterns, it's like oh this has been happening since you were like seven when you were, you know, really scared to go to that birthday party or whatever it
was and Yeah, it's so fascinating and then it is it's fascinating. Sorry going. No. I was just gonna say go into maybe your experience with like noticing patterns in yourself or in clients or yeah. What have you said there? Well our relationship with food which was what I primarily work with to start with that brings clients in but of course, it's never about food that shows you a lot about yourself. So our relationship with food can tell us a lot about our past because how we do one thing is how we do everything and so going back to Childhood. I do something similar. So I have a timeline and going down in two columns. And then I I do label them positive experiences and negative experiences. Obviously, my continued work now is not labeling anything like experiential wise or emotionally wise positive when negative it just is It's not what we look at that matters. It's what we see how we perceive it. So but it makes sense to start there. So like from the age from the second you were born. I mean a lot of clients as I'm sure you experience with your clients too. Don't have much memory. When from childhood because they have disassociate from the trauma. Yeah, we start with that timeline and then sometimes when they can see it in front of them on black and white and I it tells me a lot about the client too. They're kind of like whoa. First of all, why is the negative experiences like five times as long as the positive experiences and that's true normal completely normal and then they can see like because Through our own reality as a child. We haven't got nothing to compare our childhood too. So for example, it's easy for me to speak from person experience. So I thought I had like a really good childhood. I was very loved I had you know, we went on holidays
we had clothes we had a house. We had food stuff like that and it wasn't until actually a couple of years ago I went into and this is who my coaches currently into what she calls an immersion where they use and plant medicine. So magic mushrooms as we know them today. You have a very small dose and you she gives you therapy. She actually all these questions about childhood. The reason she uses the medicine to support is because it gets you ego out the way Which is blocking you and trying to protect you and doesn't want you to grow in all the things the ego does so that removes the ego and all your left is like the truth basically, so it was through that experience. That I realized that I had a really traumatic challenging childhood with enmeshment neglect abuse. I was in so much denial because my mom and Dad loved me the best way they knew how but it was conditional love. They don't know how to love unconditionally and the relationship I had with my mom. I was so in meshed with her and she with me. I thought it was the best relationship ever yet. We were completely codependent. Yeah. Up until the age of when I was 30 still so to see all of that in black and white and just be like, whoa, you have to grieve while I had to grieve number one the fantasy of the childhood that I thought I had mmm. There's a reason why you're develop anorexia like 11 years old. I mean come on, you know, I had to greet the fantasy and I had to grieve what I actually didn't get what I needed. And so there's a lot of grief and sadness and heartbreak, but then now we get to repent myself and give compassion to my mom and dad because they still love me the best way they know how but they've got their own trauma and I think it gets worse like The
further back you go. Now, we're quite privileged, aren't we? We can make money easier. We have roofs over our heads like back in the war days and stuff. They didn't have time for mental and emotional understanding. Yeah. Yeah, so true. Oh my gosh, that's so interesting with the immersion. I think. Yeah, what a neat experience to be able to.
Know all of that. Again, like it's it's there. It's there and the funny thing was like just again personal stories. So the reason I ended up seeing her was because my husband was recommend. She was recommended to my husband because he kept having these like panic attacks whenever he'd go to speak somewhere like on a podcast or on stage or whatever so someone recommended her for him. So she helped him and he actually had an immersion online well, and I didn't explain mine in a moment because because we live in Holland magic mushrooms illegal, you literally goes to the shop and just buy them completely seriously sharp and just be like, yeah, I would like this of this and then they say enjoy your trip and off you go they give advice and stuff. I've never taken anything in my entire life. I've not even try to cigarette. I've not had any drugs like and that's not because I guess it was because I was a quote good girl and both my parents were police officers. So you can imagine the upbringing in our hand not that disagree with it, you know. So anyway, he had this she's called Michelle. Zelli. He had Michelle supporting her and there was a massive shift in all of who he was. So I said I want to experience that. So I had a consultation call with her and I was honest and I said listen, I'm really happy. I've done loads of work on myself. I love who I am. I love my life. I just want to be in a sacred place and try this plant medicine. Like
I was totally transparent with my intention and then she sat there on this was on Zoom. And she said you're bracing and I was like what and she said you're bracing you're constantly waiting for something bad to happen to you and I just burst into tears and I was thinking oh for God's sake now what's coming up? Gee, I've done all this. Well, yeah the wheel this I'm still stuck there and I thought crying and I didn't really know what it was and she said to me you need to come and see me in person. There's so much there that you're not even allowing yourself to see and I'm like first of all, I'm like thinking no that's b*******. Like I'm quite defensive with it, but my bodily reaction said different and as I spoke to only for about 20 minutes that's spleenic intuition. I was describing how I just feel and all over body. Yes, you need to do this. It didn't make sense. It was a lot of money for one day a lot of money for one day more than I charge for an entire four months worth of coaching and I'm not you know, I'm a higher investment and didn't make sense because I was happy the investment was big I'd have to fly to England because she's actually in England. Okay. I have to fly to England all this stuff and my whole body was just saying, yes, so I was like, okay, let's do it and then The call I was like that doesn't make any sense. What I've had done what my intuition was like you need to go. So I I when it was like a couple of weeks later and had this incredible experience. Like I said, I've never taken any thing before and this is plant medicine not drugs. It depends how you look at it, but it is literally a mushroom from the floor. Does it literally more than nature right gifting was this and it goes back obviously centuries into tribals and in Mexico and Africa and all these rituals around it. So I had this experience and she was asking me all these questions and
I started off and when I was noticing and realizing things I'll be like, oh my God, that's so s***. And she would say if it wasn't s***. What would it be and I'll be like, it's really Products and then like was so even then like I was trying to protect myself from feeling the sadness. I would be like, oh, that's so f***** up. Hahaha, like using human to deflect. Yeah, what was written on so cracks me open and it was another upgrade of of healing and it just I think that's the worst of it now like I really do and it's just a constant journey of repairing yourself, but it's it's really cool. She get to know who you are. on a deeper level Oh my God, like I'm picturing this. letting yourself feel actual sadness versus the humor and kind of brushing it off because we do that and we're we have this Narrative of it's such a busy world. We have to keep up we have to be strong. I think even in like a spiritual and personal development.
I guess body of work there is that Narrative of strength and hold yourself with Grace and you know, yeah move through things with ease. And yes, there's a level of processing. But there's also that kind of spiritual bypass model of yeah, and it's like I'm Healed. I've done the work. I don't need to hold on to the anger and the pain and resentment and it's like wow, it's still there, though. that's what I was doing because Honestly, and I wasn't lying to myself consciously but I was unconscious. This was all unconscious because like I turned up to that call like I'm really good like I'm helping so many people and I was right and I was really happy but then because she's I mean, she's like, I think 60 four she was also lived a life, you know, she's got all this wisdom and experience and she's been friends. Well any imagine she's been through a lot of trauma to get where she's she is today. And so I was lying to myself without realizing it to try and protect myself from feeling the Heartbreak and the anger so when I first went into a house and like she had everything it was just beautiful house with everything all crystals and plants and it was just as gorgeous space. and then I sat down and then I said can I stand up and she was like, why do you want to stand up and I was like, I'm I'm like I need to stand up. I don't like to sit down and she said you're gonna sit down and you're gonna feel the discomfort of sitting down then I was like f****** hate her. Yeah. Yeah dare,
you tell me I can't stand up especially as a manifest and no one tells me what to do. And then she was like, do you notice what's happening you you're so anxious and I'm like, I'm not anxious. I haven't got anxiety and she was like, we'll see about that and I was like, who does she think she is? Anyway the medicine came you still completely conscious talking like you're not hallucinating or anything like that if you take more and lie down you do but you fully conscious and then when she like removed all of my defensiveness, And all of that I was feeling heartbreak sadness. I was the anxiety was a protective mechanism for feeling all the shame that I felt the shame of being who I was which is why the access started in the first place and she said there's a lot of anger there and I was like, I've no anger in me none. I said processed it all got no anger. I'm so compassionate and so full of love and I am well when we lay down on the sofa with a bit more and she invited my mom into the room and all of that. There was a lot of anger not aimed at my mom personally, but aimed at what little me actually endured needing to be perfect the whole time needing to prove herself needing to be pretty and attractive to receive love needing to take care of my mom's why I wrote in my journal after no wonder I don't want children. I've been a more than my entire life. Holy crap. Yeah, I basically have been parenting my mum my entire life and still to this day. I mean we have we do have a wonderful relationship. I've shared all of this with her and she's took it all incredibly well and working on herself, but even still I noticed messages the way she acts like I'm parent role and she's child role but it's up to me now to continue the work to not allow that Dynamic to to keep the same because
she's a mother She's not a chat. Well, she's a child of you have unfortunately dead parents now, but you see what I'm saying? Like I'm not her mother and it's not my responsibility for her to be happy. Whereas from the second I was born. It was my responsibility because I was also born to save the marriage as well. I failed that of course. Yeah, I mean that's quite a big responsibility. Exactly. And so I hope we sharing this some you're listeners can can see themselves in my story or what I've shared or or something similar to perhaps help them understand. How they are today and I want them to know and of course you can ask me anything around what I've said. It's so possible to understand and to come back home to self-love and to set boundaries and to stop being a parent to your parent and to stop feeling responsible for everybody else's emotions without feeling guilty because now I'm sure people are listening if they're thinking I would love to say no all set boundaries and if they did that there would be hit with immense guilt for saying no and then so it's almost like I would rather just be a people pleaser then feel the guilt. But no, you can also work how work on how to let go of the guilt as well. So you care. But it's not your responsibility anymore. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Thank you for sharing that is literally so Special that Journey that you went on. Wow, that's it's so powerful because
I think a lot of people will be able to see, you know, at least bits of themselves in your story. I definitely can connect to it and
talk a little bit about Now this relationship you have with your mom. Like how is it evolved and it's so hard to shift and dynamic with the same people like often we will, you know, leave a relationship or something if we don't like the pattern or the dynamic that we're in but when it's family or close friends or something. And I was talking to actually a girlfriend about this the other day. It's interesting who has like a childhood friend and they've gone through some stuff and and you still want these people in your lives, but You're still you they're still that. Yeah, you're not just gonna part ways. So it's it an active job of like shifting those patterns in your brain shifting your actual patterns of behavior to relate differently to one another so Cool, and and another layer of what if you're the one doing the work and the other person? Isn't necessarily. Yeah on that Journey yet. I can share again an experience that happened between me my mum, which is I think the perfect way to describe the question the answer to the question you've answered you've asked so I live in the Netherlands. I think maybe I said that maybe I didn't and I'm British my accent kind of gives that away. And I do visit my mum and my sister and my dad and everything everybody regularly. So it was it was about three weeks after that experience that immersion experience. And so went to England and me my mama my sister and the kitchen and the same thing that normally happened started to happen. And this only happens when I'm gonna tell you what it is. It's only happens when I'm there because my mom feels safe with me there because I'm there to defend her to take care of her to rescue her and all the things. So my sis my mum starts being RC and like basically acting like a child who is gone all quiet and so my sister's like Mom, what's
wrong nothing? Mom, what's wrong nothing and then eventually mum spills out everything what's wrong with her to my sister? My sister does what she usually does and gets all defensive and starts not shouting what debt raising her voice along kind of attacking my mom. Usually what would have happened in that exact situation? I would have been because I was also the hero and the scapegoat. So this would be my hero role so I would be I would be in the middle being like, okay. Listen Michelle. My sister's name. I understand what you say and I would I would literally be the therapist in the middle like sorting everybody out. And what happened was in that moment. My heart started to break because my mum was sat there crying and I thought no I am no. I love this is really important more about to say and this is what I said to my mom and I'll share how I said it in a minute, but I thought to myself I love my mom too much to allow her to stay in this pattern a victim mentality and childness. Yeah. If I am serious about doing this work after the emergent after the immersion everything what I've discovered I need to change my behavior in this moment. So what I did One was looking at me waiting for me to come and rescue her. Like I always did I put my hands up and I went listen. I have hung up my apron of rescuing you and being the hero and making it right between both of you. So what I'm gonna do as much as I want to go over there Mom and hug you and hold you and say it's gonna be okay. I'm gonna walk out the room you too can finish your conversation if anyone wants to ask me anything. I'll be in the living room and I took a breath and I walked out and I was like like and then none of them knew what to say because that wasn't what usually happened but I had cycle breaker. So they both finished some kind of conversation came into the living room. And then mum just
said, I'm really sorry and I said listen, there's nothing to apologize to me for I've been through this experience. It's up to me to change the dynamic here because Mom I love you too much to allow you to stay in this pattern again year after year. You're in the same pattern. so I love you too much to allow that to happen now, and I said I look to write in the eyes and I said there's a lot of pain there isn't there and she just Cried because she also can't really access her emotions. She just acts like a child having a tantrum that usually worked and then she gets what she wants totally so there's a lot of pain there and it's not my job to fix that pain because I can't so I invite you to get help to get support. And I love you. And I said to my sister and I love you too. And then what I did the very next day, I taught my sister out for lunch asked about her childhood from because she's my sister. We're only 18 months apart. I asked about childhood. She had very different memories. It was so interesting to see she had loads of memories with my dad and she had no memories with mum. I had no memories with more dad that were good. Couldn't remember not anything. So it really helped for me to explain to my sister what I'd been through ex ask her what her life experience had been and then now the Dynamics completely different and we're all on out my sisters not ready to dive into the stuff that's buried for her because the stuff buried there and I said to you've got so many so much stuff in boxes and she's like, yeah, and I'm not open them boxes and I'm like when you go through menopause, I think you will but I'll leave it there that's also my responsibility. And so she knows there's boxes there. You know, she's very aware. She's My dad they can box things up and just literally won't affect them. They're just very good at doing that. So now my mom's on her own healing
journey and we share books audio books and things like that. So cool. It's up to me every day. If I get a message like we speak most like I would say three to four times a week through text message. It sorts to me to continue not allowing her to be the child and that's up to her if she wants that's nothing to do with me, but how I behave and how I respond allows her the chance to grow or not to grow and that's on her that is not my responsibility anymore. So I hope that described Your answer to your question and actual like tangible examples. Oh my gosh, did it ever that's such an incredible example, and that's one thing. I remember you saying last time too. Like I'm a cycle breaker, and I'm like that is so Powerful because that involves taking so much radical responsibility so much action. So much of being present in the moment because if not, you wouldn't have been able to observe that situation the way it happened you would have been sucked right back in but you were you have created this space within yourself and within your relationship Dynamics where you can sit back and observe. So that is the coolest thing that's such an incredible place to be and I love what you said to to your mom to your family this idea of enabling other people's behaviors something that I'm a grappling with two right now and it's like oh you know as much as we want to blame other people because you could have said You know, my mom's being passive aggressive. She's acting like a child. This is all her fault. Why is she doing this? You didn't you didn't go into the blaming you went into the what is my role here? Oh, I'm enabling this Behavior. Okay. Okay, I'm gonna shift it. I'm not gonna do that anymore. So that is so
fantastic, but holy it's hard to look in the mirror for that. So amazing amazing. Thank you. And what you said Bria is so key because I remember what audiobook has listened to and it said something like if someone is being abused. And they are allowing the abuser to abuse them. They are also abusing the abuser because they are enabling the abuser to abuse.
Oh, right, and then I was like wait, hold on a minute. I'm gonna pause that think about it think back to my experience of being an abuse because I always work best by tangible lived experiences. That's why I kind of share from personal experience. So when I was in abusive relationship, I was being abused mentally and physically I was allowing that to happen because if that happened now, there's no effing way. I would stay in that relationship. I would be out of there. But I was and I know that it's obviously linked to self worth. Like I wasn't the person I am today back then totally or I wasn't taking responsibility for my part in it. I was like poor me, you know, I'm being abused every day. No one loves me like poor me but I was allowing that to happen. So people don't want to hear that because it can be scary to take for responsibility, but when you get over the scariness, the most empowering place to be
Oh. Okay, ah, there's so much we have to talk again, but that's fine. I love talking to you before we wrap up. Just tell everyone where they can find you and yeah, I like to maybe if you have a final note on that empowerment piece that someone can kind of soak in right now as they're listening to this. Well driving just as they're like mantra for the rest of the day. You are the creator of your life. You get to create your own reality. And it starts with you. So if you're in a situation a life experience a pattern that you say you don't want. Part of you want it? And bear with me here because having is evidence of wanting this will be unconscious. Of course, we don't consciously want to be in an abusive relationship. But unconsciously we're getting a reward from being in that position. So a book that I would recommend is existential King. I can't remember the author's name. It's not about sex or anything like that. It's about going deeper under the unconscious asking why do I why am I choosing this situation when I say, I don't want it you basically meet yourself. It's a mirror for yourself to see what's actually happening and just remember that you are the creator of your life. Yes, it's your responsibility. But with that comes empowerment don't be afraid of the power that you are embrace it. That's what I would say and you can find me Victoria Clansman anywhere Victoria Clan's been official on Instagram. My website has all my links to all my social media and the body love binge eaten disorder recovery podcast so good. Oh, thank you for sharing that. That was like your I don't even know what to call that. That was a gospel. I feel like you just preached. I'm just nodding here. Sorry, please yes, so my virtual coach says she's always see me as the high priestess. Oh his name. So amazing. Oh, thank you for being here and I'll link all your info in the show notes. So people can connect with you. And yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me on Bria. I appreciate you so much and your listeners. Thank you so
much for hearing me. If you have any questions just reach out to me. I'm here for you amazing.