The Better Boundaries Podcast

Meredith & Carla on Trauma, Addiction, and Second Chances

April 17, 2023 Season 3 Episode 152
The Better Boundaries Podcast
Meredith & Carla on Trauma, Addiction, and Second Chances
Show Notes Transcript

In this episode we talk about the impact of living with loved ones with addiction and substance use. Meredith and Carla Holguin graciously share their stories of love, loss, and life. We discuss ways in which you can prioritize self-care as a caregiver to others and Carla and Meredith provide hope and inspiration for the future!

In today's episode, we discuss:

  • Spirituality
  • Religion
  • Addiction
  • Trauma
  • Resilience
  • Self-Care
  • Healing

Connect with Meredith
Website
Podcast
@meredith.coviello

Connect with Carla
Podcast
@carlaaholguin23

Bria Wannamaker, RP.
@betterboundariespodcast
www.briawannamaker.com

Support the show, buy COFFEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

As always, please remember that these podcast episodes are for educational purposes only and are not a substitute for medical healthcare or mental healthcare. Podcasts are available as an educational and entertainment resource and are not advice, recommendations, or suggestions. Please seek out the necessary professional services if you require assistance.

kept pushing through, focusing on what I can do because I'm not responsible for him. Unfortunately, I felt like I was. And I'm just like, yeah, I'm not. And I'm not the parent. I'm not supposed to be parent you. I'm 

Welcome back to another episode of the Better Boundaries Podcast. I'm here with two folks today, Meredith and Carla. And today we're talking about addiction. So it's going to be a sensitive topic, but I think it's so relevant right now because I brought this to our podcasting community. Because I'm seeing so much addiction in my work with kids, specifically addiction to technology and then also my work with transitional aged youth and adults seeing, you know, substance use and also like technology addiction. So we're going to talk about the whole shebang. But yeah, maybe both of you go ahead and introduce yourselves. What lights you up? What do you do? Just a full on background introduction. Carla Go first. I am Carla Alejandra and I have my own podcast. It's Carcafe Concho Latte. I am Latina, Mexican and Colombian and I'm a full time bad assistant. That's what I do. But I like to bring awareness, knowledgeable and empowerment in life with people but as well as with animals. That is the goal. So I'm gonna have a lot of duality over here, but I've been through a lot of life. Like, you name it, what have I gone through? And now as I'm getting in my mid 20s, I'm just enduring so much change and evolving and I'm like, holy **** there is the beauty after madness and chaos. And I'm like, I am even shocked because I'm like, am I, how do I embrace this? Since I'm used to chaos? I was like, what? This? There's so much beautifulness going on in my life currently in this stage and I'm just like. Like, I don't even know. I don't even know. Describe it. 

What the heck, Okay. I love that. And I wanna get more into that afterward because I think that's probably a place that so many people struggle, is looking for the good we're in such this panic and like. I always think of things biologically like and especially it's great that you have such a connection with animals. Like I always think of animals and just being in that fight or flight all the time and just that being what we're primed to do. And I think we're at a state now where. It depends what situation you're coming from. But where we can have more access to like free resources for growth and personal development and for getting towards that like kind of self actualization. But we struggle to recognize and shift perspective and look around at what is going well and then when we notice what's going well, how do we embrace it. So I love that. I think you're going to provide such a cool perspective on that today. Yeah, yeah. Meredith, what about you? Background hit us. Well, I'm already, like, obsessed with this energy. Right now. I'm just sitting here like, I don't even have to talk. You guys are just like, I'm loving the light. I'm Meredith Koviello. I am the host of the Sweat and Reflect podcast. And like Carla, I've been through a lot of life. I'm about to turn 35, which I'm like having another like. Crisis of life. But that's fine. I am a certified Dharma and Nutrition coach. I am currently like mostly full time a professional organizer. But I am really channeling right now how to get back into life coaching and figure out which way to best support women, especially women who are struggling with their own self worth. One of the things I know we'll chat about today is that I'm the widow of an alcoholic. So coming on the other side of that and you know, figuring out who I am, what I'm supposed to be doing now with this like second chance and how to really maximize the opportunity, find 

the good, is something that I'm really working on and I know that I can also empower women to. Get back to basics with themselves. But not gonna lie. I'm in a season where I'm like, I have the tools, but what can I actually do to help other people where I'm feeling like, very stuck in this in this season. So I think that's why I'm very much gravitating toward both of your energy right now. Because I'm like, okay. We're going to get Cleary, we're going to have a good conversation. And, you know, you don't have to have everything figured out, but we just got like pushed through. I agree. I agree, because I don't think none of us have it all figured out. We're just winging it. And I'm the father. I'm not. I'm the daughter of the father, OK? I'm the daughter of alcoholic. And seeing that going through what I went through, I'm just like, holy crap, how do I even deal this? But I just kept pushing through, focusing on what I can do because I'm not responsible for him. Unfortunately, I felt like I was. And I'm just like, yeah, I'm not. And I'm not the parent. I'm not supposed to be parent you. I'm supposed to only guide you and help you as much as I can. I need to know my limits there too. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. You guys like I'm interesting interested to dive into maybe like the start of your stories. And I think Meredith like thank you for being honest and and so vulnerable and saying that about feeling stuck. And especially like being interested in like being a Dharma coach for folks. I think that's a neat point of like because is that from what I know, is that like? Following your path like what you are meant to do. Yeah. So the other way that it's described as like a sole purpose coach. OK, cool. I love that. I love that. I think that's so neat. And it's it's neat that you are figuring out yours at the same time, just like parallel with those you help and maybe 

a couple steps ahead and that's how you can guide other people. So thank you for sharing that because feeling stuck is only temporary, but I know when you're in the stuckness. It sucks, man. Seriously. So ******* sucks. 

So yeah, Where do we want to begin? I'm thinking in terms of touching on what you guys have gone through with seeing alcoholism, seeing addiction, and. Yeah, being in partnership and being in close intimate family relationships with folks, with addiction, it's it's been a struggle. But we could talk about how it started. Yeah. And it for my father personally, it started for within his own trauma. He couldn't endure it himself. And he was the first born in his family and he didn't have the support care he needed. Or the resources. Or he did and didn't want to change. And it's challenging because it's it's really hard to see someone struggle that you love and admire since a kid. And it's just like you were my hero. You still are. But now things are different as the adult me, you know and it's it's hard because like being that and witnessing that at such a young age, you learn to be a mature child, not a child. You know, I had to be in a way. I was responsible and I was like, that's not my job. I'm not responsible for you. You are my dad. I wasn't supposed to re parent you at such a young age. And yeah, that was challenging. Yeah. And then so when you say like, you had to be there. What were some can you give 

like specific examples of even what it felt like to to have to be there for support? And I I just imagine like it sounds like there would be just so much worry and fear and hyper vigilance and like walking on egg shells. And yeah, it really was. Because anything I said say by helping was an attack towards him, more his ego than anything, but I felt it and unfortunately. My grandmother is a narcissistic queen, so she raised him as a narcissistic person. And in terms I became that what I was taught and I became very bad. And I'm like, okay, How do I be in this society? Who am I? What am I? Am I this, Am I that? And so many people had opinions of me and I'm like, okay. I really got to carry the opinions of my father, my grandmother, myself. Who the hell am I in reality? You know, when I did get help, I've been getting help not only for that, but for some whole bunch of trauma that has going that has been happening. But that's another story. But yeah, that and that's The thing is I don't you second guess yourself, you doubt yourself and you're in this fight or flight mode and you don't want that though, because you're like, I know I deserve better, but how do I get out of this? Yeah. And I think especially when it's family, it makes it. That much more challenging to quote UN get out of it or to set boundaries when you haven't had that opportunity in the past. And it creates a whole host of other issues like I've listened to Gabor Mate speak on a DHD and depression and just how those can actually be protective. Versus like being solely a diagnosis and just how of like. Of course your system is going to shut down or numb out or feel like you can't focus or pay attention because they're your 

only options. Are fight, flight, freeze, or fawn like people pleasing? But what if you can't do any of those? What if it doesn't work in a situation like this? We just, we shut down. It's our Organism, our way of protecting ourselves. So of course it leads to more as well. And yeah. What about you, Meredith? What what is your kind of situation with seeing addiction firsthand? Boy, So I had known my late husband since. We were teenagers. We met in college and started dating when we were 18. And, you know, as we were growing up, there were definitely like addictive tendencies. But, you know, you're in college, so everyone's drinking. You know, then you're in your mid 20s and you're still kind of, like figuring out who you are. You're getting into your job situation. So, OK, it's like kind of normal that everyone's still drinking, but when it got. To be really bad was literally within like six months after we got married. My husband just hit a wall of. Not being able to cope and what he was struggling to cope with, I'm still not entirely sure. I'll never know at this point. But looking back, there were definitely depressive tendencies. There were the this pressure that he put on himself to live up to people like my dad because they were in the same field as lawyers and you know, there was a whole. 

I don't even know the word like hierarchy that you have to live up to as a lawyer, especially like in our neck of the woods in New Jersey. So there was a lot of internal pressure and in 2019 it all came to a head and I finally looped in my family that you know, there is a major problem here. I am scared. I don't know what to do. He's not listening to me. Everything is verbally combative and. That was June of 2019, and by May of 2020, was dead. 

He developed, 

Oh my gosh, the whole hepatitis A. And by the time we were able to get into the doctor, which was, you know, height of COVID, there was absolutely nothing that we can do. We could do. So it became. This reflective piece for me of I was now a heightened level of a caretaker. I had been taking on those tendencies for our entire marriage up until that point and you know, pleasing and keeping everybody outside completely unaware to what we were dealing with on a daily basis. And you know, his family I had looped in, but their perspective was you just have to love him and if you just love him, he will be okay. 

Like my motherinlaw literally said I I remember calling her around like June 10th of 2019. he will not make it to his 35th birthday if we do not do something. She said Just hold his hand and love him. And eleven months later he was gone. 

So for me it's now been. Trying to take a step back and not deal with the guilt that I couldn't save him when I tried for so many years, even long before we officially diagnosed him with alcoholism, I knew, I think intuitively that there was a bigger issue. And as the caretaker, as the people pleaser, I just was like, we'll do whatever, like we're just, I'm going to put myself in the situation. I'll put the smile on my face and I will just love you and. Do all of the things. And now on the opposite side of it, you know, it's this tug of war of how I learned to put my own boundaries back into place. How do I love myself and give myself grace for what I was and was not able to do while he was alive, But also dealing with the duality of I love him and I miss him, but there's such great relief in knowing that I no longer have to carry that suffering and the fact that I know that he is. Finally at peace. 

Yeah, like, thank you for sharing all that. It sounds like you've done so much work around this and through this and it sounds like you also probably have a good support. Like, I don't know if your your family is like supportive of you or if you have friends that you're connected to, but. I don't know speaking about it you you seem so strong and thank you. Yeah it's it's true. Yeah. No go on. And I I wonder 

saying like about the relief piece like knowing this that you don't have that caregiver burden and because it gets so muddy the the lines become blurred of. Who am I and who is that person and what is their energy? And what is my energy? And especially if you're living in the same house as them and like you said, all while keeping that mask on when you're with friends and family and social, that's exhausting, like that is a lot of work. And I wonder too if Carla, if you can speak to that, how? Are you navigating through that now as well? Like keeping the separate and if you that's a process you're in. I don't know, and what tips to both of you have on how to. Who, who like? Who are you? I'm doing all these hand motions and no one on the podcast, so I talk with my friends because I'm, I'm Latina, so we talk with our I love that I'm Italian, so this is all working with all of us. All the hand gestures love it. So for me as an adult, there's a big change. Like I was saying, my dad is at his face where he's not jerking and I'm still living with them. And I'm just like, that's what I was here. And I was like, there is change, but everything I knew of is different. How do I handle this? And I'm handling it with grace and mercy because that's what I'm giving younger Carla and young dad. Both of us are healing those wounds and we're embracing 

it together. And it's beautiful to see because I never thought that would happen. I would. And my mentality, I thought. The day my dad dies is the day he's gonna find his piece. Unfortunately, that's the way I thought that's the way I I kind of reported younger Carla. And it's like and now seeing it, I'm like, OK, I don't know how to be be myself with it because again, like I say, I'm used to fighting. I'm used to that and I'm like, OK, so you don't have to get used to it. You could just change your mentality and focus off of it and be like, you know what? There is goodness within a traumatic past and there is. So much love and support you could give to both sides of it and that you didn't have. And I'm just like, we're all embracing this goodness and I'm just like, I'm really in beside me and I'm like, OK, alright, alright, we're here. We're all hugging each other and it's it's beautiful, it's beautiful. 

I just, I love that for you and for your dad, I mean. Like, that is truly a gift. I'm like sitting here tearing up because just the fact that you guys get to go through this together especially, I'm even gonna cry. 

And I never thought this would happen. 

And you're just so deserving, like both of you, to be able to, like, share this and to give yourself grace like you were saying like. 

It's a very powerful moment. I'm like, wow, thank God we're here. Thank God, 'cause it's been a long time coming. 

And then is does it feel like you've arrived? Does it feel like you're still climbing up a mountain? What is the what's the other side? It's it's it's shock, overwhelming of the goodness, embracing. Too. But at the same time as like, wow, wow, we're really here. We're actually, we're doing it. We're actually accomplishing it. And it's for me, it's entirely shining because it's like, but like what? And I haven't, I've, I've seen it, but I haven't fully faced it as I should because I'm still in that we're like, wow, it's been two months. Wow OK wow. Wow. This is a change. This is really a change and it's I'm embracing it all that sorry I'm crying cuz and I'm an emotional person to begin with. I think that's so beautiful and I think that gives people hope for like you said there's I don't know how you put it it was really lovely. Something about the beauty and. After traumatic experiences. So I think that's so uplifting for other people to hear who can't see a light at the end of the tunnel. And so I'm a Capricorn. I'm pretty practical. So what, like actual skills and tools have you used to navigate this in this new place in, like, your dad's sobriety? And yeah, how have you been, like, supporting yourself? I've been doing art and I've been I love to write. Can draw. So I combined those two and did quotes and I made my own quotes and art with it. And it's a drawing that is a metaphor for inner Carla and adult Carla embracing this change going on. And it's very healing for me since I'm the. I 

have notebooks everywhere. I'm a journalist. I love that. That's my creative side. Going on little Carla is like. And she's dumping for joy. So that is what I'm doing. It's on a daily basis. Like I'm tracking down every every day and I'm like and I really sitting down and saying it out loud to other people is is really something that like I said, I'm besides my stuff. I'm in the, I'm in the in All right now. 

That's so neat because yeah, I'm just like that like in journals everywhere, writing all the time. I love that you. Have tapped into that space of like creativity and are like combining the art and making your own quotes. And I think it really hits home when we're able to do that, like when you're coming up with quotes and stuff yourself and not trying to remember something that you like read on Pinterest. So I think that's so amazing and uplifting and like you said, it's kind of honoring that inner child, that little Carla of like. We have space for this. We have space for ourselves. We have space to be creative. We have space to just connect. We have space to take a break. We have space for leisure. I think it's so amazing. Thank you. Thank you. It is. It's we're jumping for joy right now and embracing all these big steps and achievement in life. And then what about you, Meredith? Some skills and tools that you've used. It sounds like there's a lot. It's been a lot. Yeah, I mean, both before his passing and then after. It's been therapy every week, nonstop. That has just been such a safe place for me to process and, you know, to say things. And then after he died, it was running. I just happened to sign up for two virtual challenges, and just getting outside every day and moving my body really 

helps me connect. With what was going on with me and, you know, back in his prime, my late husband Tam was a runner. So it felt like it was something that we were doing together. And since then it's been a lot of different things. I have thrown myself into getting certifications. I did a lot of journaling and listening to my intuition. You know, I was in. I was a teacher for 10 years, and a year after he died, I was like, we're out. We've got to find happiness. We've got to do what feels completely right for me. And teaching was not it. And, you know, just reading, listening to podcasts and just being okay with being where I was, you know, there's so much guilt that goes around being. Not only associated with someone who's an alcoholic, but you know, when, when they pass, especially for me, like we took vows, right? Like I had promised to be there through everything, right goodness. And whatever the vows are, we didn't do the traditional vows, so that's why I'm struggling with them. But like we had, we had made those vows and so a lot of grappling and understanding of how could I have made those vows. Meant to feel like on some level I had given up on him or not, you know, done everything that I possibly could have, even though looking back and like you did everything, like there was literally nothing else that you could have done besides give him part of my own liver, which was we were too far, you know, past that. 

But it's also just. Like a lot of what Carlos saying, honoring where I am. Like right now, this is the season where three years ago, you know, in a few days it's going to be the last time that I saw him alive and in person was able to touch him. So giving myself grace for this month of April and next month May talking about it, even though it often feels weird with my boyfriend who is so incredibly supportive of where I am right now and where I've been. I'm just, you know, surrounding myself with both people and energy and spaces that I want to be. And like I'm I'm very much using my voice of, you know, I'm not going to go to this shower because it's a family member, because my energy is not going to match what that celebration should be. And that's not fair to them. And you know, even right now, acknowledging that I'm being very reactive and so putting that out there, try not to sit in this reactiveness to all of the things, but knowing that this doesn't have to be permanent. But for some reason, this is what I need to be challenged with right now, and I need to figure out how to deal with it because it's all part of my grief and even though I'm three years out. 

It's it's a whole new, like, mechanism or level of grief that I didn't think existed. And so just honoring that, even though it's really, really, really freaking hard, because I'm just like, OK, but I'm really happy right now. I'm in the best place I've ever been. Why can't everything just be good? And it's because I have more work to do. 

Yeah. Thank you for sharing all that. It's, I love that you can kind of talk about each step of your journey and like take us along there with you, with you and like paint a a good picture of all of the different steps you've taken. So thank you for that. And yeah, I'm wondering from both of you, what does the Grace look like that you've come to come to allow yourselves like this? Grace. Because it's interesting when folks deal with a family member who is like, let's say abusive as a blanket term. Like whether that is neglect, psychological, emotional, even being like an emotionally unavailable just like not there and having to do that caregiving role and and burn yourself out. It's interesting because. Most times you can't tell that that person, like being one of you, like the caregiver person, is going through something behind closed doors. Like that is a completely different realm of life. Like, I think of a few close friends and family members who I know who have a whole whack of toxicity in their family and drama happening. You would never, ever know it if you saw them on the street. You would never ever know it. If you hang hang out with them, if you spend time with them, they're asking how you're doing and really invested in caring for their friends and the most loyal people ever. And so. It takes a ton to be this one person in one phase and then go home and deal with something else behind closed doors. So how have you learned coming from those situations this giving yourself grace for where you're at now? Because I think that's absolutely fantastic. 

I'm learning to accept what is in the moment because I tend to want things like that. And one, things like I'm not a very patient person, only with animals and what and I'm hurting that things take time. There's work to be done and you don't have to be hard on yourself for something that happened. However, you're healing and graving except it learn by it and grave on your terminology. There's no right and wrong in healing, you know, Whatever you need to do, you need to do for yourself. No one. Everybody's healing in their own journey. But for me, it's looking like inner Carla, little Carla embracing a lot of adult Carla. They're hugging each other right now and they're going like this and they're just like yay. And it's really it's adult me giving all that love and protection to little Carla that she needed and it's taking me. It took me like mayor that said going to therapy since I was 14 years old. And now that I'm 27, I'm like, wow, wow. All this therapy did work at the moment. I didn't see it, but now I'm seeing it because I could talk to people and be truly invested in there and be like, yeah, I understand where you're coming from. I see you. I know. Yeah. And being gentle, I've learned to be gentle towards my nephews towards. Animals and just being the person I know I'm capable of being, even with all the trauma I've been through, you know, and it's like, wow. And in the ways that's God's gift within me. 

But that's just my take. 

I love that. I mean, I think, you know, as I'm sitting here and I'm listening to Carla and I'm thinking about, you know, everything. That that this conversation is bringing, like I know that I give myself grace, but I also know that I am the hardest, I'm hardest on myself and you know, on the days where I just need to sleep because it's like all the energy that I I have, you know? I in the moment, I'm like, okay, this is what you need. But then I wake up and I'm like, why would you sleep like that? You know, like you had things that you were trying to do. You were sleeping your life away, and then it's coming back to okay. Well, this trauma was not just his death. It was years leading up to that. And and being in the thick of it and not realizing that what I was living was traumatic, right? It was just my life. It was just all that I knew in that time. So it's this. This balance of having people reflected back to me, that I can give myself grace like my boyfriend, like my therapist, like my family and friends, and just constantly trying to get myself back to that center, that intuition of okay you may not be able to see why this is working out for you right now. But at some point you will be able to see the big picture. And again right now, like I said at the beginning, I am. I feel so stuck. Like I literally feel like my feet are just stuck in the mud and I cannot get them out. And I'm just trying to give myself grace that this is a season of relearning who I am and what I can do. Even though again, I did it last year and I did it the year before that and. And so I guess like when I say Grace it, it looks very different to me when I envision how I'm using it for myself versus what I would use it to describe like how I am giving other people grace. I'm just like very nice and light and how are you and what can I do for you and I'm here for you. And so trying to to merge those two forms of grace for myself. 

So good. You guys like, so good. I'm honestly speechless. I just, I don't know what to say. You both inspire me so much. OK, Do you have any final kind of Nuggets of information, tips, quotes that you want to share with other people who may be in it right now? Maybe they are the ones that are struggling and and are feeling that. I always like talk about codependency and there's the two parts to it, right? Like there's the person who is more of the enabler and the person who is more of the person who needs support, right. Let's like, yeah, let's go with those two. I like those terms enabler and then the supportive person or caregiver. So I guess, yeah, if someone is struggling on either end of that codependent. Relationship of needing support or enabling others. What do they need to know? What do they have to kind of find within to move through this challenging time? 

You are not responsible for anybody but you, you are the one that's in control here. And it may be hard right now, but it does get easier. It will get easier, and there's a light at the end of the tunnel. It may be darkness right now, but there is light. And however it looks like for you, it will get better. Keep having faith and keep going. It will get better and easier. And if it doesn't, there's going to be a way out. Regardless of how it is handled, there is a way out of it. 

I Frigg, that's it's so good. And like when you said faith, I like, I have goosebumps all over right now. My hairs are literally standing up because 

faith is such a hard one. Like some people really don't believe in, like they don't feel supported and they don't feel strong in themselves or like something, something is out there. 

Rooting for that, They feel like they're alone. What is your take on that and and where do you find faith? You're not alone. We're all struggling a battle within and within our family and our dynamics, dynamics. And it's hard, It's challenging, but my faith is within knowing that. I may not sort this out. I may be in the unknown, but that's where I know I'm going to get religious here. God is. And he's telling me, you know what? I know you could handle this. I know you're strong enough. And I know that you're going to be beside yourself. I'm going to bless you with something. But I just need you to go through this hardship right now so I can give you the best version of yourself and the best things coming. And I need you to handle this right now so you could go onto the next level of your. 

****. It's so good. It really does feel like that. Yeah, my job it it really does feel like that. Yeah, I love that. 

I would just say for anyone that's in it, you have to trust your intuition. Like if there is one thing that I wish, OK, wish is not the right word. So let me let me just say and then I'll I'll qualify it, but. Trust your intuition, like you have that inner knowing that is telling you whether or not you should or should not be in this situation, or if you should or should not be giving your energy to the situation. And there were times throughout my relationship with Tim where something was just like Meredith, this is not meant for you. In the sense of this is not what you had imagined your life to be, right? This isn't the the light, the love, the best version of yourself. 

And I was going to say I wish that I'd listened to that. But my thing is, 

I can't wish it away, 

because I know without a doubt that I was meant to be. On that path that I was meant to ignore my intuition and that I was meant to be there with Tim, because had I not been, I truly believe he would have suffered more, and that I was there to guide him to his through his last days. And as much and as much as I wish you know, it never came to that. His death has given me the greatest gift, because now I get a second chance. I get this the chance to own who I am, to listen to who I am, to be in a place that is full of love and light. And yes, there are still hardships, but I know that he is now a guiding light, and now that he is. Safe. And he's happy. He is able to be a support system for me that he wasn't able to be in the flesh. He's my little cardinal. He comes to me all the time. He's come to me since like a month or two after he died. And you know, because I've been able to listen to my intuition, I recognize his energy. I recognize him being there for me. I recognize, I think even more importantly. That I'm ******* capable. And that life was really hard and really traumatic, but I was able to survive it. And if I can survive that, I can do anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you just got to listen to your to yourself and trust yourself. 

I think we gaslight ourselves so hard. And I mean, I'm not a huge fan of the term gaslighting just because it's become so pop psychology, but we've we ignore our intuition because it's a faint whisper 

and it's interesting though that you feel like it. Or not even feel like you know that it was for a purpose for you. And it's really kind of neat because and Carla's speaking about faith. I feel like we're held either way like if you there is no and Carla had even said earlier there is no wrong choice or wrong kind of healing something like that and. Yeah, Whatever option you chose had you chose to leave, the marriage had you chose to stay, which you did, there was no wrong choice. You were held either way. So I think that's really beautiful that people know you. You will be supported no matter what you pick, because I think often we run around and we have these big fears and worries that we're going to choose wrong. In life. And I think that there are mistakes. I think that there's trial and error. I think that there are failures, but I think that, yeah, there isn't. There isn't always a wrong path to take. It's just a different path that you'll take. And I think it's amazing that you both feel like you're on this second chance path. So what is, I guess? Maybe one thing you're looking forward to or excited about or launching or moving towards in this second chance and where can people find you? 

I was deciding on what to do with my life too, cuz like she said she's stuck. I'm like, I want to be empowered. So I was thinking of maybe becoming a coach for. People not only for AKA heism, but sexual assault, because I was that too. So I was like, OK, I feel no better place than I ever been. But knowing how I can get sometimes too, I don't want to be too high and then be like work. So I'm just neutral about and be like, you know what? I'm hyped for myself and I'm very excited. But I'm gonna be like, you know what will be neutral about this? 'cause I know I can get, but you can find me a cafe con chocolati and on my podcast. I don't post consistently and working on that this year, but yes and yeah, and on Instagram. Carla A Hogan, 23, and my podcast is on there. Amazing. I'll link everything in the show notes. And I think that's neat. When you say it, you're kind of neutral about it. Do you mean like you're thinking about becoming a coach and stuff but not like, being impulsive and jumping into it like? Act cuz I'm actually cuz I'm a very impulsive person and I'm trying to take big steps and rolls to this cuz I can be very hyped up and then when I fail I'm just like damn man, I fail and I'm very hard on myself. So I'm like you know what? I'm gonna be neutral. We're gonna we're gonna see if I fail. Alright, cool. I fail. I learned from that and I learned for the second time even better. Huge. I think that's amazing. And like, I heavily relate to that. Like being getting so hyped. Like, I'm gonna do this, Like I'm gonna do this thing. Like, this is my thing now and I'll research it for days and like, send myself links. Like I'm signing up for this. And then the next week I've decided on something else. So baby steps come through. 

Yes. So baby steps. I love it. That's a great tidbit of advice and I'm excited to see what you do with that. I think even just like saying it out loud on here and like feeling how it settles in your body is a cool way to be like I I maybe could do that. I am that, I identify with that and I think that'd be a really neat, I think that's really needed, especially in terms of with the sexual assault. I think folks really do need support in that area. So I mean. Stuff. I'm here for it if you're keep us posted. I appreciate the love and support and Meredith proud of you girl. Girl. I'm just giving you both hugs, virtually. Wow. I've been healing and just wow. Just what I needed to hear today on Saturday and it's just like. Healing words. That and you need a community regardless. We don't say it as much. We need a community and support system, and we don't say it as much as we need to because we're stubborn. I know I am. And I'm like, no, I'm an independent woman. I could do it on my own, but at the end of the day, you know, you need to count on people. So I really do appreciate both of you. You guys are both amazing. And Meredith, thank you for sharing your story. You are phenomenal. OK, so much props and I'm applauding you and you keep going on this beautiful journey. Oh my God, this is like, I had no, I didn't even realize, like, how much I needed this. And so again, like the universe, God, whatever you want to, like, put the three of us here. And the fact that we were all connected And like, Carla, hearing your story, I mean, I'm taking tidbits from you. Like, I got to keep on with the baby steps because I've never been impulsive. And since my husband died, I'm like, I'm going to sign up for this, sign up for this, for this. And then I'm sitting here with all this stuff and I'm like. Cool. What do I do with it? Like cool. I can just say that I have a collection, but there's nothing, nothing moving forward. So we're going to do some baby steps going 

forward, but ways that you guys can connect with me. I'm the host of the Sweat and Reflects podcast, so you can connect with me there. We talk about everything from addiction to self love to just. Working through putting up some boundaries as needed. I'm over on Instagram at Meredith dot Covillo, and I've been sitting on a course that I created called A Guide to Healing for over a year now and sitting here talking with the two of you, it might be time to actually, like, get ready to put that baby into the world. It's, I'm gonna say you. You need to you like for yourself. Because it's going to kill you as well as. And I know you're scared and then positive you're just coming down. But you definitely will empower so much people. And just hearing your story, you inspired me and to being even better for myself. And I just appreciate you. And girl, you definitely got to it. Because like Keisha says, you gotta let that fire up your booty. How to do it, girl, you gotta do it. I believe in you and your potential, both of you. Oh my gosh, thank you. Like, 

I'm like really not good at taking compliments. So thanks a lot of knowledge. I've noticed many people and they're just like what I'm working through right now, what my chiropractor says, which is like, you can take a compliment and not have to immediately reciprocate. So just know that for both of you, I think the world of you and I'm so glad we connected. But I'm holding myself back because I just need to allow myself to absorb the beauty and and the kindness that you both have shared with me. So thank you. 

Amen. Thank you both. I appreciate you so much. And I like closing off on that piece about just being open to allowing and receiving and you don't have to throw it right back. You know, even if somebody says like, oh, I love your top, I'm always like, oh, yours is great too. Like 

what? What is that? Anyway, That's a, like, a full other conversation. So let's allow, let's receive, let's open up gratitude giving thanks. And yeah, I appreciate you both so much for openly sharing your stories. And I know that it's gonna help so much with other people who are going through the same thing. Thank you so much for having us on. Like this has been such a treat, Such a weird word to use, but it's been a treat obviously over here. 

So things been lovely to connect and find people that I can share my story and be vulnerable, you know, even it's can get dark, but there is beauty within the light, you know. So thank you so much.